An Interview with Digital Preservation and Restoration Expert Larry Blake - Digital Archiving and LTO Works.

Larry is a sound editor/re-recording mixer talks about his experience preserving the work of Steven Soderbergh and provides invaluable DIY information.

Transcript:

all right uh welcome everyone this is Rich gay from missing movies and today we have as our guests Larry Blake uh who works extensively in uh digital preservation and restoration uh and uh we're going to have hopefully uh you know an enlightening conversation here about uh about where we are and uh how we can help to preserve and restore films in the future so without further Ado Larry I'm just going to ask you to explain a little bit of the work you are you are doing in the area of preservation preservation and restoration yeah um thanks Rich um my day job and my primary job is I supervise post- production sound promotion pictures and documentaries and TV shows um that's my that's my putative job um but um because of my connection with Steven Soderberg I've supervise a sound on 33 of his movies and four television Seasons um and I've also his sort of informal archist um I have been deeply involved and involved right and am involved right now with the restoration of seven of his movies whose rights have rted to him and we can talk about that issue which I know was one of your key points at missing movies um I've also been involved in restoring through movie studios um about um probably 15 of his movies and probably about 10 other movies unrelated to Stephen uh I've done for example four movies for Victor Nunes who's a good buddy of mine and restored his movies going back to uh Gan flash of green uh Ruby and Paradise I'm really proud of and um so I've been involved primarily with making movies contemporaneously but also going back to movies I've either done before like with Stephen or in the case of Victor movies that other people had done so um I've seen the whole point of view and I'm not just looking at it of course from the uh sound point of view because I'm my background is in film making film Mak and so exactly what happens with the image and all that is you know it's part of the equation right kay so when you as you approach these Restorations uh what are some of the obstacles what are the biggest obstacles you went into on a technical side well um you know it it depends upon uh you know obviously there's the issue of finding materials and um uh you know getting a getting a transfer done but I I don't really consider those obstacles I mean the biggest obstacle we had with the movies whose rights have averted to Steven was with the movie full frontal that he did in uh 2002 for Miramax and the rights to Steven 20 years later and couldn't find a camera negative I mean wow it was just not found and uh so I kept digging and I kept digging and then it was like one little mention in one Excel sheet at FotoKem led to one little mention in one Excel sheet uh with a postproduction executive at Disney which led to the proverbial razor lost AR Citizen Cane Warehouse where the camera negative was wow and it's like you know I mean the these stories are that's you know as uh the TV show of The Naked City it's there are a million stories and yeah this is just one of them um and that was the only time other than not uh we have been uh Stephen and I like the sound elements since the since the get go since and videotape which we've restored times most recently five years ago for Criterion um uh I've always kept all the sound elements be they were usually in a form of multitrack tape and we've had all migrated over to file so that's not been an issue so the issues of the act of restoring are not are not the things and and I think that there are two big things that people need to be aware of one is your primary Mission which I think is fantastic which is contractual stuff getting that show in order because that is something where like the technical stuff where people you know the biggest problem is people assume too much be it technical or contractual they just assume it's always going to be there um and uh so what what y'all are doing I think is tremendous because that that's early undeserved thing the other thing is is the act of digital archive itself is um something which has been uh the subject of many canards and pretty much patience zero in this epidemic is the cat piece paper the digital dilemma which is without question the most quoted uh publication ever in the history of movie archiving it is really no competition I mean you have you have Anthony slide's Great Book of nitrate you've got giovana faa's wonderful books you've got you know a lot of great books out there but it has no competition to uh and so for if you just do a simple Google search about film archiving and what's happened from that paper is that there is um in The Ether it's like out there as a um received wisdom that dig archiving doesn't work you have to constantly migrate you have to constantly worry it's very expensive and all those things are not true and it's it's sort of my mission um and this is me as a writer not as a filmmaker sound person or a restoring person as a writer I'm writing a book which is titled solving the digital dilemma um which goes into the Practical issues involved and they're not that complicated and there is no Boogeyman out there um that awaits people there isn't I'm fascinated to hear that you know it's fascinating to hear that because I think a few things that you said ring very true to me number one is yes I was one of those producers uh my my wife's the director and we felt very much like we assumed that this material would be taken care of uh and there was no real you know it's just there's no level of Education about what steps we should take I mean obviously you guys were uh were way ahead of us I mean interestingly uh our first film true love was that the same F at Sundance with SE and you know remember what's fascinating is that you know it's kind of interesting because we have two Divergent paths I mean you guys knew enough even then to preserve and hold on to materials and we delivered our show and that was it that was you know we were done with I mean I I did score a 35 print of the film that I later uh you know placed with UCLA film archive but we you know we we went in different we went in different directions um so that Rings very true the assumptions uh and the lack of any contractual obligations on anybody's part to advise us or for the lack of information really uh was a huge problem the other thing that I like hearing is that it's not impossible it's not ridiculously expensive uh you know I want to hear more about this in terms of the the digital uh preservation process uh so maybe you can talk a little bit I know I you know uh about the the overall topics in your book that you know and yeah like uh the famous uh line in the movie uh Doctor Strange Love where um General Buck Turon is faced with the idea that um a general has gone crazy and because of this the whole world could end right and he says I have to admit the human element has failed us now and it's it that's really the thing with um with digital archiving of movies let let's talk right now of if you're making one today right it's not the issue of whether or not LTO works it just does full stop you know just does yeah um that's not the issue it's not the they the tapes you know the LTO 8 tape does not have a restore by date on it right it just doesn't right um I mean I'm the first movie I did uh that I archived the mix as I did it well I don't know if you can see this I can't really read the title what it's yeah sorry it's out of sight it's stepen out of okay and here's the effects down and this tape restores to this day right it literally in July is going to be 25 years old and I periodically restored it as like a party trick and uh 25th anniversary I'm going to restore it again now I'm a little bit crazy and I have two Mac 9600s and two DLT 3xt machines with the software so I'm a little crazy but the bottom line is is that this thing is nowhere near this DT 3xt is nowhere near as reliable as this right and current tape for example this is uses an L8 deck look nothing really special and you're golden it doesn't require any special software it doesn't require any special operating system and so those need to be made clear because the the again the boogeyman is stated as you know computer changing well I'm not going to get to technical weeds but if you write to tape using was called LTFS linear tape file system I believe um you long as you have the driver that allows the deck to talk to your computer it doesn't care whether this thing is connected to a Linux machine Windows or Mac does doesn't know or doesn't care right and so this is archivally toxic this has to have a Mac a Mac Pro I excuse me uh um um a power PC Mac okay it has to have an extinct piece of software it has to have Decks that are were no longer made in in the year 2000 right so you know but so that's what I'm saying is this is a worst case situation and it works this here there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of these L8 decks sold every year they're not it's not going to disappear and the media itself has improved incrementally over the years and so anyway now that first that first LTO that you from out of sight that's what is that that's LTO no this is not LTO this is called DLT 3xt oh D oh I'm sorry I'm sorry okay this is before this was something from the 90s okay um and um lto format began uh in the year 2000 it's actually a Consortium of companies got and the uh it's you know people should look it up and it's a great thing I mean it leads the world of data archiving it's just a big dog and it's not going away and one point I'm going to make going forward about what people should do is they should in addition to having multiple sets at again I'm a little crazy for so for Stephen's movies we make four sets of everything okay um and it's really not that expensive um in addition to having multiple sets geographically separated in the best tradition of movie archiving uh I think it's essential that people use the cloud too uh now I know that's sort of a broad subject but the thing is is is that with the coldest data storage tiers in Google and Amazon and Microsoft um they're it's costing you essentially $1 per terabyte per month bottom line is if you have a complete set of data for a movie maybe it will come to if you have full 4K image sequences it might come to 20 30 40 terabytes well H math that's $40 a month that's $500 a year right that's not a lot of money no you want you want to store film cans at Protech Vault yeah probably gonna be the same and understand too that the Cloud specifically means with respect to on the cold tiar of all the storage companies um it means they're putting them on tape they don't tell you that well actually Google and Microsoft um tell you that they do Amazon is like getting news out to Kremlin you who knows what they do right but the knowledge in the industry is that they absolutely do so when you go to their um uh deep archive um it's called Glacier deep I think is what they call it okay and or no it's whatever it's called it it's uh it's sort of it doesn't fall off the tongue easily right but Glacier deep um basically it's like Google it's dollar per terabyte per month and Google's different because Google keeps it on spinning dri say spinning drives it's all sure sharded you know in a data center right um Google says you have millisecond access for Glacier deep uh they say it can be up to 48 hours which is not an issue I mean if you're vaulting your thing away by the time you get in touch with exactly VA pull it out of storage you know right so the point is is that that that means that everybody knows that Amazon is backing it up to tape got so I think there's no question that people should um uh be using both you know you want to hold something in hand right and you want have something that the migration is completely not your problem now when you store you say it's in four Geographic different Geographic locations what types of locations I mean doesn't really matter yeah doesn't matter doesn't really matter I mean as long as you know I have one set uh one of our locations is a storage Vault that I have here in New Orleans is a climate control VA but there's no there's no special thing for it you know long as it's not getting too hot too humid right you're  fine right again this tape has been stored not in any precious way it's been handled for a quarter of a century and I can't wait in July the 25th anniversary going to rest you know you should you should one thing you should not do is always store them in like uh there's a company turtle that makes cases for LTO tapes and they're cushioned because dropping a tape is not good not good okay um but you know so prior to the act of putting it on tape again going to but Buck turon's uh um uh confession um is that you have to organize everything properly is that you have to name stuff consistently you have to uh you know you have to think of the three well that's there four food groups right you've got the image you've got the sound you've got subtitles let's not forget those things and you have documentation and your mission of contractional things right and so all of those things are crucial and you cannot um you cannot forget any one of them right um that's sort of one of the problems again going back to the digital Lemma and going back to when people fetishize and which is no there's no other word to fetish right fil I mean it's a fetish it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't make any sense and whenever I talk to people said fetishist I will say okay so you think black and white separations is go is going to preserve your movie for the next hundred years right we got two questions for you what does that to do with sound right and then there's silence you just hear a pin drop like right okay so what are you gonna do for Sound Don't Tell Me mag because that's crazy don't tell me Optical because that's crazy so right what are you gonna do and then well I'll have to get back to you about that well a lot of people are getting back to me let me um right and then the other thing is there's this sense of um with film and things analog that there's this um mythical sense that it's simple and you can always restore it you know like you s off into Voyager the disc of record you can always restore it and like no that's just not true I mean you can shine a flashlight through it if I hear that one more time I'm g go crazy you can shine a flashlight through it yeah that's great you got a 4K P registered flashlight wow fix that you know it's so all the all that fenitization [Music] ignores that you know there is to take something of an analog nature be it image on film or sound on mag or Optical takes a great degree of Spidey Sense uh not even spidey sense it takes a great degree of experience that then right gives one the spoty sense I mean my buddy Nick Berg at endpoint audio in um in Burbank Nick is to me is the uh you know the LeBron J names and Michael Jordan the goat of that field and he has the approach uh that when he does something this is the last time it's ever going to be touched because there's a there's a lot of his um his machines and all he is he does his best and he's keeping them up magnificently but he knows that in 20 30 years and he's a fairly young guy right that there certain part parts are not going to be available right they're just not going to be available people say well I can always make it's like no no you can't it's like it's like one talk I gave on against a digital dilemma in 2013 at the Academy somebody stood up and went I can always build the projector it's like actually no you couldn't you think because you what a what a multi cross movement is that you can projector no you can't I mean the latest projector that is no longer made but the latest great projector was a kinoton FP series it's a computer with sprockets right you know right it's like that's why the academy has got Academy dou a2s because they're like tanks and they're less relying upon U electronic stuff right you know and so the idea that you can always build it is just total and people need to need to realize that so so but for your um well I wanted to ask you about the steps that so so let's go back because you you've said a lot of very really good things and a lot of good advice I want to sort of lay it out so basically the if I want physical copies we're talking about the LTO now do you how expensive is it and do you recommend that someone get their own drive to that there be a drive on a show that that can generate these lto or it it it depends um there's a couple of factors here let's assume I mean you can sh whether you shoot film or shoot digitally you're going to finish digitally unless you're CHR noan apoll Thomas Sanderson right help me Jesus okay so um uh so that's  a given you're gonna finish your image digitally right 99.9% of the time you finish your sound digitally 100% of the time not 99 100% of the time you're going to finish it digitally so then you end up with you know in the case of the of the image you will end up with a server at a at a facility presumably um you will then what you back up do you restore do you back up the the image sequences which is if it's 4K it's about 45 megabytes a file per frame um and then you might have eight terabytes of that okay that's one way of doing it and you should do that because that is truly archival proof I mean there's no if you have an image sequence um in either DPX Tiff or openexr files which is the only really the only three files that people use if you have one of those three as in one file per frame right it's you're golden you will never you will never have a problem with it however you also need to make practical things you must always make unless you're a strictly TV thing but if you have any theatrical uh yearnings and all you must make a DCP and it must be unencrypted that's just there's no question about that the studios are really fussy about that but that's a whole separate subject and then you should make prores or interruptible Master project um the um which is sort of like a a a it's nothing that you use as a end User it's a mezzanine thing it's designed to make video outputs from it um you can sort of like it's sort of like a buffet you can say it will give me the English track but with French subtitles and the high dynamic range version or whatever so an imp is a very powerful tool that people need to research um but you should also make progress files both standard HD 1920 by 1080 and then also the full-blown uh 4K um High dynamic range versions you should make both now of course Apple owns um right the progress format right and you know Apple could all of a sudden go ah we've got 101 trillion doll in a bank we don't care about this and it's very possible they would that having been said and noted uh if you have a progress file you're not going to have any problems going forward there's no way it's just too big to fail as as the saying goes okay if you will be able to play back a prores f someone will be at PR playback a prz file for many decades irrespective of what Apple does okay so you should get those three items then with sound is really very small it's just it's just basically you know a couple hundred gigabytes um your stems your dialog music and F Masters you need your print Masters you need your music and effects versions and things like that it's very small and very simple okay um key thing is to have all the stuff organized and named in a in a consistent manner I mean what you know what I do on my movies is I have the short title uh which is to say like the project I'm working on now it's called Full Circle so I always write it what's called camel case capital f l l capital c i r CLE tight no space no underscores that's the short title then an underscore and then I'll have snd for all of the sound elements I deliver so if you do a search for for anything there you'll you can see all the sound elements and then it goes then it follows from there got it got it and then to but but the the the the problem going back to Buck Turon is that you have guys and gals in a machine room in the middle of the night who get creative with names right and I you know I am like the atill of the Hun when it comes to that I say yeah I'm not trying to deny you your creativity but do it exactly like this right you know it doesn't matter what you think should do what you normally do just do it exactly like this and thus everything you can do a search and everything will flow all the sound elements and similarly for the picture elements full circle uncore pcore and then it would be you know prores HQ or whatever it is with the um the resolution and the bit depth and the color space and so on so forth got it got it okay um but back to that question this is this it you know it sounds simple enough but it's probably not something that a filmmaker should be doing individually but do you I mean it it feels to me because again I'm less than technically oriented that it should be something that's that that that a post house does but oh yeah absolutely yeah absolutely I mean it just depends upon the size of your of your movie rich I mean if you're doing anything where you have a facility um that is doing your di they are probably set up to make you just need to specify that we want to have copies because most facilities you know the extra cost of another set and mind you with this is effectively um 10 terabytes that's not a lot of that's a lot of yeah and you know 10 terabytes what I do in in in in my movies with Stephen certainly um is that I I do what I call a drive zero and that basically is everything but image sequences because in 10 terabytes you can fit all the subtitles all the sound including dub versions uh all the all the documentation including scripts including um of course contraction stuff music Q sheets things like that right um You can fit all that easily uh including an unencrypted DCP you can fit you know the smaller um progress files so if you only had that one tape of which there are four and it's also in the clouds let's not forget it's not one tape it's four tapes plus a cloud and that itself is tapes multiple locations because it's not just one tape in an Amazon thing you know they all have different ways of spreading things out um so but that one set we'll call it um that would get you pretty much anywhere you need to go the image sequences are really um the icing on the cake you know that they're they're  not they're not absolutely essential but any smart archiving does have that gotcha you know and so that needs to be done by to answer your question directly yes that should be done by di facility or I know you spoke with my dear colleague and friend Linda todic yes um or you go to a company like Linda and there are a few and her is one of the best known where they can get the data from the facility and they will make the multiple sets and curate the data um and so you know that's  another way of doing it but again you have three or four I mean some studios make two sets of things and it's like it's like the old gunfighting Maxim you know one is none and two is one you know and I can four to be three right you know you have to allow for to assume something is going to fail on you but to repeat what I what I spoke about earlier is the idea that these tapes are going to fail people just need to jettison not from their brain what about the idea of uh of now of migrating those tapes down the road I mean is that you know I don't I don't I don't think for if you're doing today you should be using L8 right and those the formulas and those tapes and the fact that you're writing it with LTFS which is which is uh operating system and um it just and software agnostic if you have an LT deck you have by definition have LTFS you just need to get a driver that allows to talk to the your computer that's right simple um and so the fact that you have that means you're good this tape that they spec it for 30 years these tapes DLT 3xt I don't think it was a glimmer in anybody's eye that that any crazy guy in New Orleans would be restoring it 25 years later right um right but so the idea of well they change LT again this is put forth in it's received wisdom out there that uh well they change they down there at LTO 9 which they are um L8 is all we need for movies that's all you know 10 terabytes per tape is a perfect sweet spot okay um and um they'll have lto1 that the path is now to generation 12 okay fine so it it doesn't mean that you get a gy Phelps in uh in the credit sequence of uh Mission imposs you know yeah they do not they do not self-destruct right now so so then it's a question of well you've got the four sets of tapes I mean if you know this whole system including a Mac Mini and everything May cost me um I don't know what was it like $7,000 you know whole cost of it but you only need if if you were a filmmaker right and you wanted to looking after it yourself that investment will hold you for 10 years minimum you don't need to keep changing that you just need to tell you people I want you to back it up to lto 8 and you go well you know we have 12 now now it's like do it to eight right and it's going to last long enough people talk about things like on glass and on DNA right synthetic DNA and all that wonderful I mean that that's  like I've never kissed a girl but I'm gonna wait until I can marry Katherine Zeta Jones right well maybe you should adjust right a little bit and it's the same thing yeah one of the things that we're advocating for and what we what we learned in some of our research is that the DGA did have a program uh for 35 prints being deposited with UCLA film archive and of course the fact that no one's making 35 prints I mean that's sort of you know that that program sort of fell by the wayside we're trying to revive that and make turn it into something like this where there would be an L8 uh or made for every film and a copy deposited I mean again we go back to that thing you said which I also think is very true is this contractual obligation if that obligation is there as a delivery item then there's not a question of whether the movie can afford it or whether it should happen or not happen it's an obligation that you know just like delivering the stems or delivering the QI I mean uh you know if we can we like I'd like to I think that's what I'd like to see happening to sort of standardize this process it won't protect everything or everyone obviously if you're not in the DGA and you're making a film uh you're not uh you know you're not lining up with the with the collective bargaining agreement but I think it would be a very helpful uh step in the right direction sort of as you you know in that in that sense of you know let's do what we can do well you know along those lines and let's now speak about movies where a filmmaker is making it on their own and there's no Studio that you own the intellectual property so you have to get made and get the uh and maybe have your own L8 deck let's talk about that situation um there there's a 400 pound gorilla with a tutu in the middle of the [Music] room everybody ignores I'll give you five seconds to tell me what it is uh oh tell me the Library of Congress right I've been to CER Virginia where they have the National Audio Video Conservation Center with all the recorded Sound and Motion Picture Holdings when and um and really everything that's not a book or publication or a piece of graphic images right you know photos is stored in C pepper and Greg Luca and his staff there are just great people and one thing that a lot of people don't know and know you know in your research is there's a there's a weird thing that's happened the past 20 years and that is to submit something for copyright protection you can give them a DVD yes in fact our film yeah our film was a was ghs was delivered and some films now are just delivered as MP4s um exactly and so and so people need to be a little more granular and to slice that concept much thinner and that is to say is to um realize there's one thing which is the letter of the law and then there's the other thing which is what's best for you and if you're an independent filmmaker and you can give Greg and his team or give it through the copyright submission process but it's ultimately going to end up in C pepper you can give them an unencrypted DCP you give them an IM or prores HQ F prores HDR file you can give them these things and you know spoiler alert they're going to be around in 200 years right it's know their process they have two data centers which I don't know if they’ve switched from the uh Oracle t10k format which is now obsolete I don't know if they switched to LTO yet um they will I think because Oracle no longer makes those machines but they have two data centers where they have stuff stored they also have everything in an Amazon location too so um that stuff's going to be around forever and if you're talking strictly about preserving your movie full stop then that is as they say on the cover of Mad Magazine Rich what does it say next to the price cheap that's cheap right for you to give your movie to the LI Library as a I think it's technically called the uh copyright submission gift right however it's phrased right and you know don't just give them the DVD give them an unencrypted DCP give them the prores files or an imp what have you and you're golden there that that so and so the issue of you know an LTO tape well you could do that but I think it's better expressed really as the specific digital items that you would give them um okay and you know I know the DGA has also I think and correct me here they also had something with respect to um separations at any point did they at some point yes I think they did yeah which again they need to they need to uh recalibrate things but you know the there's just this fenitization of film I'll say it again I'll keep saying it that people need to get a they need to get rid of it they really need to move on from that and understand that that if you want to preserve something for the future you've got to do it digitally full stop and the word print I think is really dangerous because you grew up with them that's the way you showed a movie sure right fine okay but it's not the way you restore a movie unless it literally is the last thing you have you want to scan from the camera negative or worst case best case next best case would be an inter time dinner positive right and so on so forth um you don't want to scan from a print it's just you don't I mean only thing you have and it's also not what you want to preserve because people don't walk through the logic of a print that is have a print you've got this one print and the projectionist reads it up wrong one time yep it's a scratched print right pretty much which happens to pretty much has happened to pretty much every print ever made if it was screened it's probably got a mark on it it's probably got a yeah an imperfections yeah and that's why back in 2018 when they had the uh 50th anniversary of um 2001 and they were showing uh you know Chris Nolan's unrestored version of uh 2001 with scratches you know and and tears because it was a you know not the original negative it was from an i an IP and right and it been in dirt in the middle and it's like kuick was out of his mind with respect to wanting sharpness and resolution yeah he was out of his mind he would literally have his own projectors at his own home steadied constantly they weren't good enough for him his own projectors and so the idea that this image bouncing around on the screen is the way it was well yeah it's the way it was but it's like saying let's preserve the Beatles with the Emi LP which is the only way you could hear Abby Road in 1969 it's like yeah but let's go back to that Master tape right uh you know the whole thing of film fenitization is the uh yeah first cousin of vinyl yep well this has been great I really appreciate uh all the info I think the practicality of this is going to be really helpful uh to everybody so you know I'm I just want to you know do you have anything uh that you want to close with uh or well of course um when it comes out and who knows exactly when that will be buy my book solving the digital dilemma yeah looking forward to that that that that because the last part of the book is actually um a I don't want to call it a workbook because that would be a it's going to be a series of excel documents that you that that you'll be a to to obtain um and it's basically a guide to how to back up and archive your movie the first four sections of the book will be history of archiving a history of digital archiving and case studies from Steph's movie Logan lucky which was the movie we did in 2017 where we really started with the process we're doing now and then another part will be the Restorations we’re doing for all of his movies that's great um and so that will be a pretext to then okay now all that having been stated right what is the best way to um what's the best way to Archive stuff and to lay things out in a very a very clear path because um it's not tough and too much is made of it and there's too many there's too much um there's too many too many canards flying around there right and I'm available if anybody ever wants to contact me swellon AOL s w l t o NE aol.com just zap me an email and uh ask me a question because it's it's not hard and it doesn't require you know it doesn't require great amounts of of uh money outlay to do it properly right um and again you know the act of just anybody who entertains the notion of going to film that's like 50 Grand to pop just to get a negative in your hand yeah and then what do you have you have no sound you what do you do with that negative right a print you can't show a print anywhere and then so you got to scan it and effectively keep point to be made here you're starting again all this data all these files the DCPS the prores files the imps everything that you had made you'd have to start again yeah um so I'm just saying it is you know put your money put your money where can be the most use and if you're if you're an independent filmmaker um uh you know it seems expensive you know um and I'm not saying it's cheap but you know we go back to when we were starting rich and think of how much money people spend on spent on 16 millimeter film negative and prints oh yeah going to get to get stuff on any one project that you get this one investment and then it's 60 bucks a tape 60 bucks for 10 terabytes right well that's great and you know the I think the book is going to definitely be something we're going to want to recommend because you know that's what we're trying to do we're trying to make this uh accessible uh you know make the whole process be a little bit more because you know we think of preservation and we think of the silent films and the you know nitrate all that and it's actually I I'm relieved to hear you talk about uh you know the work we're doing right now and how it's a lot easier than you know it's easier than that it's cheaper uh and it's uh it's available to people so looking forward to the book Thank you so much and again I applaud uh you and uh and your team and you know introduced to you by Dennis and Amy yeah and who always done great work and uh I applaud you guys for doing for honing in on that one part of getting all the contractual stuff done because when we did Logan Lucky in in 2017 and 2018 um you know I'm good buddies with the uh Stevens producer who's also our lawyer and you know I was like you know Ken you know get me these contracts I want to put them away on the on the archive you know and but it's like these things are just crucial because again it's like you just assume things and yeah and last but not least I'll say something that on every within every section of what I write I have a PDF file that's a read me file great that just explains what's there it explains this was our process in mixing it sound for this we mix it 51 you should never up miix it to something called Atmos you know we have nearfield and Theatrical Masters uh we have high dynamic range Masters the it Peaks at you know 700 nits or whatever if you write this stuff out in English all the things you assume you know you just have to we have to assume that people in the future are not Clairvoyant exactly they have no idea that they can you know mythically go ah so I see a high dynamic range 7.1 you know right they're not Clairvoyant no and so we for us to for us to write out it takes like 10 freaking minutes to write out in English and to bake it as a PDF file yep and to put it at the top level and on the top level of our Drive zeros is I have a PDF that says read this file before thinking of doing anything right yeah you know it's uh if you get if you can you know cut Buck turgis off at the knees yeah andate the human error that's right you're never going to uh to you know destroy the world as we know it exactly and maybe yeah and maybe you can at least preserve some piece of it all right well thank you so much I'm gonna uh say bye for now and